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Paperstars
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Is astral projection proof of a soul and do you think some people lucid dream thinking they are astral traveling?
06/21/12 at 13:49:03
 
If someone really astral projects, then it's proof that there is a soul correct? Has there been any scientific studies on this? How do you know it's not lucid dreaming?

Has anyone done an experiment like this? If they have someone living with them, have the person write a word, drawing or number down on a piece of paper and leave it on a designated spot or even put an object there(you don't know what they wrote, or what they put there,  you just know where to look when you travel), then when you astral travel, go to that spot and read the paper or see what is there. When you wake up, write down what you read/saw  during your travel, before physically seeing what was there when you wake up.

Oh, if you don't have someone living with you, open a book without looking at the page and leave it somewhere, then travel to the book to see the page number. Write it down when waking up then check to see if you are right.

Does that make sense? I wonder how it would work out. I wonder if some people are just lucid dreaming and just think they are traveling? I do believe some people travel though but how many are just lucid dreaming which can be very real. I lucid dream but never astral traveled.
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51degrees
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Re: Is astral projection proof of a soul and do you think some people lucid dream thinking they are astral traveling?
Reply #1 - 06/21/12 at 20:13:40
 
Paperstars, excellent questions and good use of your analytical suspect re: differing interpretations of astral and lucid states.


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Ok follow along if you will:  It is time to read.   Grin

Perhaps too often people jump on the wrong freight train when thinking outside the box on the subject of astral projection.

Bare in mind, this is my opinion to this in-depth subject, it does hit home with me.

Outside of any logical induced approach to that of astral, there will always be the question of Astral or lucid dreaming as a question in peoples mind.

You will not find many which have undergone the clinical approach to astral projection.  

In this particular research format, it establishes routines that allow for some idealistic conditions for the practitioner. Conditions that are tended to by a staff of many others that monitor and maintain a controled environment best suited to trial and error and succes.

Conditions which are not always present on personalized basis within daily life.

At the same time, there are many others which are behind the scenes that gather a ton of data stemming from biological/physiological and psychological analysis data of the participating person(s) that are engaged in the application of induced astral projection.  

Because there are so few (which will speak of this research in controlled studies) that is tagged to the studies of astral projection by induced methods, all else would be what is called "random events."

Beyond the given control charts of random activity associated within the parameters of astral projection.. the field of true hits tends to dwindle very rapidly and become categorized as lucid effect dreaming.  

To the lucid dreamer, it appears quite realistic.  
There may be threads of actuality associated with lucid dreaming which can raise the flag of suspect potential for experiencing astral projecting or even getting fragments of futuristic events that come as result of suspect time/continum and peeking beyond the veil, so to speak.

What differs from suspect and actuality?
A random event and induced (self induced mostly - result of perfected auto suggestion or hypnosis) are two different animals.  
One is a natural event that stems at will few and far between as a result of natural nocturnal (or sleep) states for what takes place.  While induced, is the willful command over the subconscious to enter an altered state with a specified objective or agenda precalculated and preplanned.

What remains, is that of the data recall from the event and validation.

Those in an altered astral state can usually thrive upon multiple thresholds of consciousness which allows the conscious, subconscious and super-conscious to determine a specified pathway leading to that pre-calculated objective.  Without an objective it is mere recreational soul flight for passing into an ethereal state and penetrating the veil of one plane to that of another (which tends to be confusing to some).  

Those that reach these levels by self induced, are much attuned to metaphysical principals that all things vibrate complete and house no limits or barriers, where energy and mass becomes simply parts of universal laws that can be blended and passed without restraints as long as you follow the rules and alter to that of a compatible state.

Among the greatest road blocks in these arenas of astral projection, are the mind sets that become conditioned from birth forward, about limitations and that of perception, and fear.  

Within the confines of the physical consciousness (for most) these limits are stamped as tangibles.  

Within a complete altered state, this slate is thus clean and free of those principals of conscious limitations.   It is a huge transition to redefine the thought process for what is instilled in our daily lives, perhaps as why there are so few that continue the practice and will speak to it.

By the way...  I like your theory of the book and the page number.   Wink

In practice this would be noted as a Target.
Another method for creating targets, comes from what we call Beacons.  Beacons are most often objects that hold a familiar energy that has been personally charged (such as a crystal or animate object).
The object then becomes placed somewhere by another person... the objective is to create a paranormal scavenger hunt and find the beacons.. return to the physical, log it to the research journal and compare the end results for accuracy.   These things often lead to something much bigger in the picture of externalizing and escape of the physical realm.   These things are often pre-curser to investigative work, cold case work, search and rescue and the list goes on and on (on the forefront of positive application).  

Well and good perhaps; but, somewhere like night and day or positive and negative, there is a darker side that some have gravitated towards.
There are others that may twist things a bit and utilize matters for less than positive application, but I won’t go into that here.

One thing I feel is important to note:
As with many of the gifted facets, there is a tremendous alliance with humble humility that accompanies the gifts.  There are certain thresholds that need respect.  Less than understanding these thresholds, it places an "at risk" for many undesirable effects and side effects.  

•      I worry about recreational approaches to some of the more stringent disciplines of paranormal practice.  Perhaps because of the potential physical and psychological impacts more than the effects of overreaction to suspect dangers that have not been reconciled between a physical state and a pseudo spiritual state of mind impact.

Random on the other hand, seems a natural thing for most people.
The greatest concern ( in my thinking) would be; how big of a sore spot on your head (or anyone else’s head) would there be, from scratching it and wondering what the heck took place, and what it all means?    Smiley
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Laetus
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Re: Is astral projection proof of a soul and do you think some people lucid dream thinking they are astral traveling?
Reply #2 - 06/22/12 at 03:19:18
 
I suppose there's two ways of looking at this, and ironically, how you look at it has everything to do with how it works for you.  It sounds to me as if you're referring to a form of 'etheric projection' known as remote viewing.

For a scientific explanation of this phenomenon, look to the Monroe Institute's research on the matter, or into the army's remote viewing experiments. Michael Persinger's theory of the neuroscience involved in the phenomenon is thought-provoking. In a nutshell, I think most scientists would argue that individual remote viewing is deeply affected by the viewer's preconceptions, which is difficult to control for. When done in a a well designed group, with cleverly designed controls, the success rate improves significantly.

For the mystic's explanation, and a more hands on view, I suggest you get a notebook and a copy of "The Art and Practice of Astral Projection" by Ophiel and try out "The simple method" for seven days.

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Re: Is astral projection proof of a soul and do you think some people lucid dream thinking they are astral traveling?
Reply #3 - 06/22/12 at 17:41:06
 
Laetus very good.. Monroe Institute.. would that be Robert Monroe?

I was unaware that he had extended beyond mere author and created an institute for the development of Astral Projection... interesting.  Huh

In 1971 he came out with Journeys out of the body... and while that was somewhat of a "go to book" for matters of Astral interest, it tended to be more of a one person journey and sales pitch to the community that this stuff has substance.

The one aspect which I did find fruitful, was his approach to his own fact finding methods of trial and error, and, how he managed to record his data findings for process improvement and development to his own particular needs.  If it helps others, that is another plus.  

While the psychological frame of mind is often unique among the multitudes, it mandates each to reconcile a process and adaption to their own unique self.  Otherwise everyone would be attempting to mimic a single process and wonder why it is that things don't happen when they followed the step by step method.  

It is odd (not odd really  Wink  )  that you mention remote viewing as an appendage to the subject.  I was reluctant to mention that facet for personal reason.   But yes, it is quite true of the DOD and civilian interests that were engaged in this research.   That is as far as I wish to go on that subject matter.  Grin   I will say however, that was not any conspiracy theory notion, it was (perhaps still is) quite real.  

Loved your post response Laetus   Wink
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